Healthy Alternatives to Soda

Melissa: Hey, Pioneers. Welcome to episode number 430. Today's episode, we are talking about alternative beverages to soda. As we move into those summer months, I know that I am looking to reach for cold beverages a lot more than I am in the winter months, and oftentimes for folks that means soda. However, I'm sure most of you who are watching this know that drinking soda on a regular basis is really not that great for you. I confession you'll hear in today's episode where I shared a little bit is I used to be not only a soda bean, but a diet soda at that. Yes, with aspartame. Oh, the things that we do in our youth when we don't know what we don't know. However, it has now been 13 years since I have went completely off soda and have never introduced it back. And I have to tell you, when I was making adjustments for my health, if you haven't listened to that episode or want to hear more about that story, we'll make sure that we link and reference that for you so you can go and check that episode out.

But one of the immediate differences that I saw in my health with swapping and changing things out was by cutting out the soda. Immediately, I noticed a huge difference in my health within just a few days of cutting that one out. And I also know how much, I will be honest, I really enjoyed drinking my diet soda. Even now, knowing all the things that were in it. And so, that has been one thing that I have not allowed back in, or slipped, or even had one of. I do not drink conventional, I guess you would say soda. However, there's lots of different alternatives out there that can be made at home for much cheaper, and actually have some health benefits other than just tasting good and quenching our thirst. So, that's where we're going to be talking about in today's episode. And there is a lot of them. And some of them were even new to me or ones that I have not even made myself yet.

So, today's guest has been on the podcast a couple of times and is one of our favorites, especially when we're talking beverages. And that is CeAnne Kosel from Farmhouse Teas. CeAnne loves helping farm-loving families, turn common herbs into powerful medicines without being overwhelmed so that they can spend more time loving their littles and their chickens. CeAnne is the co-owner of Farmhouse Teas and Grow Create Sip with her husband. They homeschool their four children who are adopted from around the world, as well as Homestead, have their home business and home medicine on just two acres on their farm in Northwest Oregon. And you'll be able to find their wonderful teas and herbs, as well as a lot of the supplies for some of the things that we'll be talking about today, and their blog and their magazine at Farmhouseteas.com. And we will have links to everything including recipes, individual supplies, et cetera in the blog posts that accompanies today's episode, which you can find at Melissaknorris.com/430.

The other really fun thing to know is that CeAnne will also be at this year's modern homesteading conference, in person as well as their booth. So, kind of a fun fact. Part of me is like, I don't know if it's fun, but at least is a fact, and that is a study that was published in 2017 showed that 61% of children and 50% of adults drink soda on a daily basis. Now, that data was from a 2013/2014 survey, and that has actually went down. So, a newer survey was done and shows that back in 2003 and 2004, it was 80% of children and 62% of adult that drink soda daily. So, from 2017, anyhow, that has went down some. It is still high in numbers, and as we know, at least soda made in the U.S, which we talk about today in the episode as well, is made with a lot of ingredients like high fructose corn syrup, a lot of food day, oftentimes a lot of caffeine depending on whichever, obviously some of them do, some of them don't. So, variety dependent there.

And sadly, part of the reason I think that we've shown a decrease in some of the soda drinking, well, I would like to think it's people just not drinking soda and doing a lot of the homemade alternatives that we're going to be sharing about today. Energy drinks have really grown in popularity, especially with teenagers and young adults. And so, I think that you have seen that replace some of the numbers. It just wasn't reflected in the study.

Today's podcast is sponsored by Azure Standard. As you know, if you've been listening for a while here, I use Azure for a lot of things that we are not able to produce or grow yet on our homestead. They are one of my staples for stocking the pantry. And in line with today's episode, talking about soda alternatives, Azure Standard has a lot of different options for you if you are not making those quite yet and you want to try some of them out, or at least have some of these beverages on hand as those soda alternatives. Specifically, they have got a few different brands of kombucha and flavorings that you can get, including a honey jun option of kombucha that uses raw honey.

So, make sure that you go to Azurestandard.com and check out all of those different alternatives and brands. They also have some water kefir grains as well, so they can be a source for making your own and getting those beginner cultures, as well as tasting some of the different types of soda alternatives such as kombucha and jun. And if you are a first time customer to Azure Standard and your order is $50 or more, make sure that you use coupon code Melissa10 for 10% off your order. That is for first time customers only.

But without further ado, let us get right into our main topic and that is alternative beverages for soda. Well, CeAnne, welcome back to the Pioneering Today podcast.

CeAnne: Thank you for having me. I'm glad to be here again.

Melissa: Me too. I always enjoy getting to chat with you and it seems that life is so busy. We rarely have a chance to talk as much as we used to. So, like, okay, I get to catch up. And talking about actually one of my favorite subjects, because I was a huge diet soda drinker back in the day. I cringe now, but I was just doing the math and it has been... because today is my daughter's birthday, it has been over 13 years-

CeAnne: Wow.

Melissa: ... since I have drinking a diet soda.

CeAnne: Good for you.

Melissa: One of those things I'm like, I don't even want to have one because I don't want to have to go back through going weeding myself off of it. But I'm really excited because there's actually a ton of alternatives. That's the reason that we're doing this. But I feel like because a lot of these alternatives now, I think even more 13 years ago, there wasn't even as much available on the store shelves as alternatives as there is now. Which there's some healthy alternatives and then there's some alternatives that actually aren't quite so healthy on the store shelves.

But I'm really excited to dive in today because there's a ton of alternatives. And so, many of them, even if you can buy them on the store shelves, they are going to be healthier and better for you and in almost all cases cheaper to make them at home. So, one of the things that I wanted to dive into is when we're doing alternatives for soda. I see a lot of recipes, we'll call, usually for some type of carbonation. So, it could be carbonated water like club soda, soda water, seltzer, tonic, or even sparkling mineral water. But when you're making your homemade, does it really matter which one of those that you use? Is one better than the other?

CeAnne: The sparkling and mineral water will be the natural ones. So, they come from a spring. And the carbonation is made from the volcanic gases making the carbonation. So, those are natural. The other ones are all mechanically made, so they're forcing the gas into the water to carbonate it. And the club soda has the mechanical addition of the bubbles, but also the minerals. And the seltzer water doesn't have added minerals. And then tonic water, they actually add sweetener and, how to say it? Quinine to it. So, the sparkling and mineral water would be the best option.

Melissa: Okay, perfect. Now, this begs the question, because wanting to make homemade soda and still having the carbonation part, that's like, oh, that's still an outside source in most cases that [inaudible 00:09:29] purchasing. But what about making your own carbonated water? Is that a good idea? Can that be done naturally?

CeAnne: Yeah, you can do that. Now, the most popular thing is a Soda Stream. I looked into it a little bit. And you can use an acid and baking soda, and create some kind of carbonation. It's not what we're all used to and it doesn't taste real great. You have the baking soda in there, you can cover it up, but if you're really desperate, you could kind of make it fizzy. But you just put a teaspoon of each and 16 ounces of water, and shake it up really good, and you want to put it in the fridge for a little bit because otherwise, most of us probably know what happens when you put baking soda and vinegar together, and you have a volcano.

Melissa: Yes.

CeAnne: Yeah, go ahead.

Melissa: I was going to say, when my stomach acid does start to kick up, I will put baking soda in water. And there's a fine line between enough to be effective and enough where you're like, "Oh, this is tasty. I have to dilute it more."

CeAnne: It's so salty. I mean, you can cover it up with flavorings, but there's only so much that's going to do.

Melissa: But there is that option if you don't want to invest in something like a Soda Stream or something like that, that you could do it. So, that's good.

CeAnne: Or if anyone's brewing beer at home, a keg will do the same thing. You can get a mini keg, a little aerated. So, could use that as an option.

Melissa: There's options. Well, I think we should probably talk about all the different alternative options to soda. And I have to say, the first one that we're going to be talking about is one of my favorites because it will naturally create some carbonation for you without having to have one of those outside sources or mixing the acid with the baking soda and trying to get that just right. Yes.

CeAnne: To experiment in the bottom.

Melissa: Right. Which can be fun. Sometimes those are fun. So, of course, if anybody listening is familiar with kombucha, I gave it away, but let's talk a little bit about kombucha for those who are unfamiliar with it, and how that one is made, and why it's a great alternative to soda.

CeAnne: Sure. Well, shall we start with how it's made? That might be the best place. So, kombucha is basically fermented sweet tea. So, if you make sweet tea, just add the culture, which is called the SCOBY, the Symbiotic Colony of Bacteria and Yeast to the sweet tea. Once the sweet tea is cooled down and let it sit for a while, and it's going to naturally carbonate because the bacteria and yeast in there eating the sugar and they let off gases. And that's where the carbonation comes from. And it's better than soda because you get the same fizz. But then there's actually scientific studies on humans, not just on animals, showing that it will normalize your blood sugar if you drink it while you're eating a normal carbohydrate meal. So, it's really good news for diabetics. It can help normalize their blood sugars and it has a whole other host of benefits to it.

Melissa: Yeah. Well, and one of my favorites is homemade kombucha. So, my first introduction to kombucha wast as I started really diving into more natural and homemade foods and that type of thing, and cultured foods specifically was kombucha. And the first couple times that I ever tried it was just from stores. We have a co-op that's about an hour away from us, and they had some kombucha there, and then the different bottle types at the stores. And I will be honest, especially when I first was switching over, I drank it because I knew that it was a better alternative and it was healthy. I didn't really enjoy the flavor, in all honesty. I found it kind of really close to vinegar, like high pucker power.

CeAnne: It's a lot more tart than... especially if you're coming from soda.

Melissa: Yeah. But my homemade kombucha is... and I let mine ferment. Now, I'll go 10 to 14 days sometimes so that there's even less sugar that's in the finished product. But to me the homemade kombucha has a completely different flavor.

CeAnne: Yeah, it does.

Melissa: Yeah, it's so much more palatable in my opinion than the store-bought. And that's without even doing the second ferment, which is where you can really make it flavored and that type of thing. So, I put that out there because for anybody who may be listening and/or watching this, if all you've had is store-bought kombucha and you kind of were like, "I don't really know that I like that this much," try the homemade, because in my opinion, and same thing with my kids, they don't really like the store-bought, but they love the homemade version.

CeAnne: Some of that's just based on the process, the fermentation, because once it started, it keeps going. So, if it's sitting there on the shelf, it's still fermenting. And they can only do so much to it in terms of keeping it sweet enough from when they make it to when you get it. When you're making it at home, you're pulling at the perfect time. It's kind of like picking the perfect tomato. If you're growing it, you can walk out there and grab it when it's ready. But if you go to the grocery store, you have to gauge, "Well, when am I going to use this and how long is it going to sit there?"

Melissa: Yeah. And the other nice thing to your point is when you are making it at home, like with anything cultured, especially fermented vegetables or whatnot, is you are pulling it when it's met your palette where you like it. And that can be really different for a lot of folks on how much... I always say how much a pucker factor they like [inaudible 00:15:05] sour.

CeAnne: A big question we get, how do I know when it's done? Well, a lot of it's just depends on how you like it. I have a sugar allergy, so I can't have any sugar. Makes my throat swell. And it's amazing, after so many years of not having any sugar, everything tastes sweeter because you get used to how much sugar. So, it's also a process when you're coming from soda to kombucha, it's a big difference. There's a lot more sugar in soda. Yeah, go ahead.

Melissa: I was going to say, too, the sugar content, you do have sugar when you are making, as CeAnne said, it's a sweet tea that you're then putting the culture into the SCOBY in order to ferment it. But part of the beauty of fermented food, same thing with sourdough, as long as they have that time to culture for the use of the bacteria to eat through the sugar and the starch, then it's converting it so it doesn't have that same level. And to your point, you were talking about blood sugar. Same thing with fully cultured sourdough bread. It is lower on the glycemic index. But a lot of times, store-bought kombuchas usually have extra flavors added in.

CeAnne: Kiwi juice is a big one right now.

Melissa: Yeah. And so, those typically do have higher carbohydrates and sometimes people will have the blood sugar for your example sugar. So, when you're doing it at home again, you're really able to control that. Now, maybe you have, CeAnne, I have not really looked into it and in all honestly, I just go by flavor. But I have not tested like, "Oh, if I let it go." Obviously the longer you let it ferment before you move it to the fridge, the less carbohydrate it's going to have because it's going to be eating through that. Because I've had people say, well, exactly how much sugar is left in the finished product? And I don't really have a way that I've [inaudible 00:16:51] test for that.

CeAnne: Yeah, someone's done this study, I can't remember who did the study. But from days one to seven, the sugar content goes down. It's a little bit like 10%, 20%. The average brew time is seven to 21 days. By the time you get to 21 days, I think it's something like 50% to 60%, I have my numbers off, a little bit less sugar compared to what you put in there. And then if you let it go 30 plus days, it's like 80%. It turns into vinegar, there's no sugar left at that point.

Melissa: Right. Which can be a little hard palatable-wise.

CeAnne: Right, right. It's usable. There's ways to use it. You can use it as cleaner, you don't have to eat it.

Melissa: Or in salad dressings, honestly, just to use it like you would at apple cider vinegar if you've let it go too far.

CeAnne: In fact, if you want to make your own vinegar, it's a great way to do that because it's pretty easy to make kombucha. You just neglect it for a little while a little bit. Yeah.

Melissa: That's interesting though. I hadn't actually seen the percentages by the days. So, yeah, so that's good. [inaudible 00:18:01].

CeAnne: Yeah, I might be off a little bit on that exactly and have to find my chart to write those kinds of things down.

Melissa: But roughly speaking, that's a good guideline.

CeAnne: Yeah. So, if you're brewing at seven days, you still have just sweet tea. You're not going to notice much there, depending on the weather. I mean if it's the middle of summer, that might change. But 21 days is pretty average. So, when it gets to about the right taste, again, like you said, it depends on the person's preference.

Melissa: Okay. So, up next on our alternatives to soda, I have is water... I say kefir, I know some people say kefir.

CeAnne: I say kefir. I don't know if I say it right. Yes, I heard kefir, too.

Melissa: Great. Okay. So, what is water kefir? And how is that different than milk kefir? Because I know there's a difference. Yeah, there's two products.

CeAnne: So, technically they're two different species. I don't know if that's the right word to ferment. And one you feed with milk and the other you feed with sugar water; and those are the foods that particular ferment prefers. So, water kefir is a really good and easy switch for soda because it faster, you don't have to wait as long as with kombucha. And I feel like it's a little bit more forgiving. So, you just make sugar water, you skip the tea part and ferment it. And I haven't made water kefir in a while and I forget the time on that. Is it 24 to 48 hours for water kefir?

Melissa: Yeah, 24 to 48, depending on again, how warm the room is and how fast you're going [inaudible 00:19:41].

CeAnne: And probably also flavor-wise, a little tart but not near as much as kombucha. And so, you just put the grains in that and it ferments, you strain them, and then you feed it sugar water again. You can flavor the fermented water kefir the same as kombucha and bottle it the same.

Melissa: Yeah. Which is nice because again, you can get the carbonation part without having that outside source. I will say that with the water kefir though, for me personally, unless you're consuming it on a really regular basis or have a large family, that having to feed it every 24 to 48 hours, I liked the kombucha better because I had that longer span in between having to make a batch.

CeAnne: Have more time, and then you can do the continuous brew in a bigger batch. Which I haven't tested a giant batch of water kefir. So, I can't say for sure how big of a batch you could do. But most people, I don't think do more than a half gallon at a time. I could be wrong.

Melissa: I haven't really seen that, but again, I haven't studied it for this. There is somebody somewhere.

CeAnne: Right. For us, there's six of us, so it makes more sense to do kombucha. I mean, we can brew a ton at one time, but we usually do three gallons of continuous brew. And then like you said, you don't have to keep doing it, you just add a little bit to it and pull it off when you're ready. So, yeah, it's more forgiving on the schedule.

Melissa: Yeah, I agree. But I do have to say in the summertime when I feel like we're drinking more or seeking out more soda alternatives, because I think in the wintertime I'm usually brewing hot tea. [inaudible 00:21:13] those hot drinks. I feel like the water kefir moving into summer could be a really good time to start that one [inaudible 00:21:19].

CeAnne: It's a really good transitional kind of ferment. If you're not ready to take care of kombucha, because it is a process. And this one, water kefir, you can just kind of start and stop, and you can dehydrate your grains and just be done. It doesn't take quite as much effort.

Melissa: Yeah. Okay, so this one, herbal soda. So, what is herbal soda? And how is that one made?

CeAnne: Okay. Herbal soda is getting really popular in a health food store. Maybe some people have heard of Olipop is a big one, or even just the... I always just want to call it stevia.

Melissa: The Zevia?

CeAnne: Zevia. Those are really popular. So, the problem with those though, even the Olipop, they like to sneak in those sugar alternatives that aren't necessarily great for us, like the erythritol. They can have an effect on your digestive system. And then just some of their flavorings aren't always all natural. I know we do a lot with that here at Tea Blending. We use some organic flavorings that aren't up to my standards. They're technically organic and they're better than the natural flavorings. But they use a lot of that stuff in the sodas at the store. So, basically an herbal soda is just a regular soda, but instead of using chemical flavoring, you're using herbs to flavor that in general. Some of those store-bought ones, they're adding fruit juices and other stuff, but you can make them at home, which is a spice mix. You can make root beer, or cola, or cream soda. And you're basically making a simple syrup and then you're adding that to your carbonated water. So, it's really super simple to make at home.

Melissa: Yeah. Well, and with the herbal sodas, what's fun there is, those are the ingredients for the flavorings, and example, you're using mint or stuff that you can grow at home and put to work. So, that's kind of fun. And I will also say there can be some medicinal benefits.

CeAnne: Right. Yeah, you're getting all those properties of the herbs in what you're drinking.

Melissa: Yeah.

CeAnne: Yeah.

Melissa: Okay. Up next on our list of alternatives is we have switchel.

CeAnne: Now, I get switchel and shrubs mixed up sometimes. And the main difference is I also feel like I have-

Melissa: Well, and a lot of people will use some of the terms interchangeably, too. And so, sometimes you'll see. Yeah, so it depends on who's referencing.

CeAnne: Both of them use vinegar. And switchel's using ginger and molasses. It's more of a flavoring thing I think than anything. It's just the flavors that you're adding. So, basically switchel are vinegar drink that you mix with some water, and some ginger, and some molasses. And then shrubs is similar or was it, haymakers?

Melissa: Haymakers punch. Yeah.

CeAnne: Is that also switchel?

Melissa: It's also a switchel. Yeah. And the main difference there for me or understanding is with the switchel or haymakers punch for any of the little house on the Prairie fans through the book series, they talk about haymakers punch. That's what Ma would make during that. But the addition of not just the vinegar, but the addition of, well actually the ginger and the molasses though is that's adding in some different minerals, and then also helps with the ginger. It has different cooling factors. So, that's what they call a haymakers punch, when it's really hot out and you're sweating a lot, is a natural electrolyte replacement as well. So, I tend to lean toward the switchel in that aspect just because it has-

CeAnne: The extras in it.

Melissa: The extras in it.

CeAnne: The shrubs is more a drinking vinegar with... it's usually fruit.

Melissa: Yeah, they're very similar though.

CeAnne: Yeah. You could use your kombucha vinegar and make those.

Melissa: And make the shrub. Yes, you could. Yes.

CeAnne: It'd be a really good use for that actually.

Melissa: It would. And as a reminder, I do have some recipes for some of these, so we'll be linking to the blog post. If you're watching this on YouTube beneath the video description, we'll have a link to the blog post that accompanies today's episode. And if you're listening to this the old-fashioned rate, which I will confess is how I listen to most podcasts, then you could go over to Melissaknorris.com/430, and that's just the number 430 because this is episode number 430. And we'll have links to all of the different things we've been talking about today, including some of the recipes. But I'm like, we're not done yet. There is still a lot more other alternatives to soda. And so, we've talked about some of the most prominent ones or common ones today. However, there are some other ones, for example, is doing iced tea with soda water. And so, obviously that's just going to get you that carbonation part added in as well. Now, this one is fun. I have not actually tried this one, but I'm like, oh, this could be interesting. And that's doing a homemade lemonade and using seltzer water.

CeAnne: That would be fun. And some lavender this time of year would be great. Like lavender lemonade.

Melissa: Yeah, and actually I like lemonade with mint as well. Okay. We're just brainstorming all kinds of [inaudible 00:26:45].

CeAnne: Yeah. Now you need a lemon tree though.

Melissa: I do. I'm working on getting a bigger high tunnel.

CeAnne: There you go.

Melissa: I would love to be able to grow a little bit more citrus, but I need-

CeAnne: It's hard out this way. Too cold.

Melissa: It is. But yeah. So, update on that later. And then this is a really easy and fun one, and I do this all the time, and that's doing a fruit and herb infused water, I think because it's just so easy.

CeAnne: Mm-hmm. Very popular. Yeah, just stick it in your water and you're good to go. You don't get the intense flavor.

Melissa: No, it's that real subtle. Definitely-

CeAnne: Like a spa water.

Melissa: Yeah. But I like that one just because it's so easy.

CeAnne: It's easy.

Melissa: Yeah. And then this one I thought was super fun. I have not tried this one either, but this one is from Michelle. And she does a homemade maple cream soda where she does one quart of soda water with a half cup maple syrup, a teaspoon vanilla extract, and then she mixes that all together and just chills it. Yeah, I know. I had the same thing.

CeAnne: Can't go wrong with vanilla.

Melissa: Right. Or maple. Vanilla with maple together. I'm like, oh, perfect. Yes.

CeAnne: I have to try that one.

Melissa: I know. See so many, I'm like, oh, we're doing this at the perfect time because now I've got some new additional drinks to try. And then an Italian cream soda as well-

CeAnne: Those are fun.

Melissa: ... as ginger bugs. I know. I love doing Italian cream sodas, especially with homemade fruit syrup. In fact, one of the things that I'll do is when I can home-canned pears or peaches, I do a light syrup anyways with them, so it's a smaller amount of sugar. But you've got the sugar right there with the fruit, and so then it's super easy. I just will strain that off and use that as part of the flavoring to make the homemade cream soda, so it makes it really easy and fast.

CeAnne: Yeah, strawberries would be really good right now.

Melissa: Yeah. We've got probably two weeks before our strawberries are on up here.

CeAnne: You're a little bit colder than we are. Well, ours are in our hoop house, so they're a little ahead of the game. I think official strawberry season here in Oregon is... they're starting now. May usually, but June will be the big one.

Melissa: You know what actually one of my favorite combinations to do? And what I like about doing these homemade versions like this, well, one, you don't have the high fructose corn syrup, which is one of the big things with soda. But you also don't have the food dye. And that's another-

CeAnne: [inaudible 00:29:22] red.

Melissa: Yeah. But I love cherry and lime together. And then when you add the cream for the cream soda, like, oh my goodness. So, my cherries are this big and green because they won't be on until July, but I'm like cherry line-

CeAnne: That's where they're headed.

Melissa: That's where they're going.

CeAnne: Hibiscus makes a good natural red color.

Melissa: Oh, there we go. Then you can get the red color.

CeAnne: Or what's popular is that butterfly pea, the blue butterfly pea that makes the light, it makes blue tea essentially. But then if you add an acid to it, it turns purple. So, you can make a butterfly pea lemonade with cream in it.

Melissa: That would be fun. Then you'd get the fun colors. Yeah. Okay. Now, the last one on here is ginger bugs. And that is something I have not done yet.

CeAnne: Really?

Melissa: Do you have experience with ginger bugs?

CeAnne: Yes, I do.

Melissa: Yes, so I really have it. I'll come back.

CeAnne: That might be the first one I made.

Melissa: Oh, really? Okay. Do tell.

CeAnne: It might be the first one I made because we just-

Melissa: So, walk me through making the ginger bug.

CeAnne: You just need some fresh ginger. Well, I don't know if you can use dehydrated or not. I haven't tried that. I use fresh ginger because it has the bacteria on the outside of it. When you dehydrate, a lot of that doesn't hang around. So, it's just like water kefir, you feed it sugar water. But instead of the water kefir grains, you use the ginger, like grated ginger, and then it ferments the same way. So, it's super simple. You just go to the grocery store and grab that. You didn't even have to have special grains because of the natural bacteria that's on the outside of the plant. And then ginger is just really get at proliferating good bacteria. It helps kombucha. If you need some more fizz in your bottle, you can put ginger in there.

Melissa: Okay. Is it spicy? Because raw ginger can be hot.

CeAnne: No, I haven't made it in a while, but I don't remember it being that spicy. Once it was made, the sugar evens it out. So, I wouldn't say it's any spicier than the haymakers with the ginger in it.

Melissa: Well, probably the fermentation process would also... that's what I found. If I ferment garlic, or onions, or even peppers, it tends to mellow out that it doesn't have the raw punchiness. So, probably does the same thing with the ginger bugs. Okay. Well, gosh, it's that easy. I'm almost slightly embarrassed that I haven't done that one yet.

CeAnne: I think that's why I started out with that one because I didn't, on a whim, picked up some ginger and just threw it in the jar with the sugar water. They're all things that we have easy access to and then it'll bubble. You set it on the counter. Eventually you can only have so many ferments and some of them end up going by wayside.

Melissa: Well, ginger too though, is fantastic for digestion. So, you would be getting that double whammy I would think.

CeAnne: Right. It's also good for pain relief if you have arthritis or such thing that. Can be really helpful.

Melissa: Yeah. Okay. Well, I think I'm going to have to try the ginger bug one as well. I'm just going to have a whole assortment of fun one test out this summer.

CeAnne: Just want to keep them six feet apart. Your ferments need space.

Melissa: Yes. Or they'll cross.

CeAnne: I haven't had that happen yet, but yeah, it could happen.

Melissa: I don't really think I would mind the ginger bug and the kombucha crossing, because I would think that they would be very complimentary. I don't necessarily want my sourdough or my yogurt tasting like a gingerbread though.

CeAnne: No, that would be interesting.

Melissa: Right. Yeah. Okay. Now I've also heard about... is it jun or jun?

CeAnne: Jun.

Melissa: Jun. Okay. Jun. A lot of people I've heard will make that in place of kombucha. So, yeah, how do you feel about jun as a soda alternative? And then how is it different than kombucha? Or is it very similar?

CeAnne: They're very similar. Again, it's like the milk kefir and the water kefir. It's a different ferment. You can convert your kombucha SCOBY into jun, but it's not a beginner process. It would be better to start with one that's already converted. So, it's a different bacteria string, but the process is exactly the same as kombucha. It's just that instead of sugar and a black or green tea with the kombucha, you're using honey and green tea. They've not come across jun that use black tea. So, the reason that people like jun is because often they don't understand they can use green tea with kombucha, but green tea has a lot more health benefits to it because it's more in its raw state than black tea.

And then the honey, because a lot of people are concerned about sugar, and so they want to swap the honey. It has a different flavor. It's a lot lighter because of both the green tea and the honey. It's very effervescent. The honey really seems to give it's a different kind of fizz in kombucha. It's more subtle, but it's still quite there. You're not supposed to use raw honey. I think I've used it and it's turned out fine. But sometimes the antibiotic properties, if any, can fight with your ferment and not have as much fizz. So, it can be a little bit more finicky. Kombucha is more popular, so there's a lot more information on how to brew kombucha than there is on jun.

Melissa: Okay. So, jun is just, you're going to have a different basically mother culture or different type of SCOBY that's already used to doing the green tea and the honey as a fruit source.

CeAnne: Right.

Melissa: Okay.

CeAnne: It'd be like sourdough where you start out with white flour, but then you want a whole wheat, you're going to have to switch it over. Whereas if you just bought or got a whole wheat starter from somebody that was already used to that food, or like you and I switch in our diet opposite, we have to get used to it. You can't just do that all of a sudden.

Melissa: Yeah. So, just a gradual changeover.

CeAnne: Yeah.

Melissa: Okay.

CeAnne: But otherwise, it's the same. It's more a flavor preference, I think, one or the other.

Melissa: Yeah. So, with soda, and we've talked about this a little bit, soda is very sweet. Of course there's different recipes and those. I believe Mountain Dew has the highest of sugar. I could be wrong on that. I've not looked in a very long time because I just don't buy it and don't consume it. And most of the time, unless with almost all of the brands do use high fructose corn syrup, I think there's a few that are having some-

CeAnne: [inaudible 00:35:52] in the US-

Melissa: In part in the US. Yeah.

CeAnne: Yeah, if you get a Coca Cola imported from Mexico, they're using cane sugar. I actually did some mass on the sugar. I think you'll find this interesting. The, let's see, average amount of soda, and I think this is for the US consumed per person for the whole year, 38.8 gallons.

Melissa: Wow.

CeAnne: That's 147 two liter bottles a year.

Melissa: Oh my. That's a lot.

CeAnne: Each two liter bottle, this is Coca Cola, has almost a half cup of sugar per two liter. I actually thought that seemed a little low. So, if you took those 147 two liter bottles and you're a half cup of sugar, that's 73.5 cups of sugar a year. And that is what I hear, seven five pound bags of sugar.

Melissa: Just in a beverage. That's incredible. That is a lot of sugar.

CeAnne: Winston Price Foundation says that soda is America's other drinking problem.

Melissa: Yeah, I can't argue with that. Honestly, I can't say that they're wrong. So, on that-

CeAnne: That's a lot of sugar.

Melissa: That's a lot of sugar. So, on that note, for our homemade drinks, I know we've talked about kombucha uses regular sugar, but because of the fermentation process, you're not consuming the amount that you put in the tea. Same thing with the jun honey, but that's not what you're getting the full amount in that end product. But for some of the other ones, like the herbal sodas and some of the different ones that we've been talking about, you are adding a sweetener into them in most cases. So, what are some of the main options as sweeteners, aside from obviously just sugar, especially for health?

CeAnne: We talked about the honey with the jun and then the maple syrup for the haymakers, the switchel and the shrubs. So, you could use it in sharps, too. Coconut sugar, let's see. Sucanat would be, it's still sugar, but better. You can also, the amount that you're using when you're making it, you can adjust. So, we talked about herbal sodas and how they're different when you make them at home. We have a couple of mixes and in our ingredients we usually recommend a sugar because you're swapping from drinking from the bottle to that. We want to make that process easy. And usually it's just a brown sugar, but you can replace brown sugar with Sucanat or with coconut sugar. And coconut sugar has a lower glycemic index. So, gosh, there's probably like 10 more I'm forgetting.

Melissa: Well, I think one of the things we were talking about earlier with the homemade Italian cream sodas is using fruit juice.

CeAnne: Right. And just skipping the sugar using mashed up fruit or fruit juice. Those simple syrups you can use it just cut down the sugar or swap the sugar out. So, the fruit's a good one.

Melissa: Yeah. Let's see. I think this is usually more for the fermented. But any type of considerations people should keep in mind when they're switching from sodas to doing those homemade versions, especially if they're not used to consuming fermented beverages or foods, that type of thing?

CeAnne: With any fermented food, you want to go slow. Well, unless you just want to get it done with, it can cause some digestive disturbances because you're cleaning house, so you're getting rid of all the bad bacteria and you're introducing new bacteria, and sometimes they go to war with each other. So, you can either take the slow and gentle route. Like with kombucha, maybe you want to start with an ounce here and there. Like you, we take a break from our kombucha in the winter. We drink hot tea and not kombucha, so we're just getting ours going. And our bodies have to get used to each and every different ferment. So, I start with maybe a six or eight ounces, but not drink a full 16 ounce bottle right away because you want to make sure you can handle that okay.

Alcohol. Kombucha has a small bit of alcohol. If you're getting at the grocery store, they're not allowed to have more than, I think it's 1.5% I should say, on the bottle. And you want to pay attention because some of them are now hard kombucha, so they intentionally have alcohol. They're basically mixing kombucha brewing with beer brewing, so they're adding extra stuff. I don't understand the commercial process necessarily of how they get the alcohol content down, but they're required to do something to sell in the store like that. But some of them don't do that, and they'll stay on there. And so, the alcohol content will be higher. When you're making it home, it's about 3%. So, if you have a religious reason or you're trying to stay away from all alcohol, then kombucha might not be the right thing.

Melissa: Yeah, that's a really good point. Or I know there's some people who have actual alcohol allergies are going to have a strong physical reaction to it.

CeAnne: Yeah, I have those kind of line with the sugar allergy that I have, and so I don't drink at all. Kombucha doesn't bother me though. Even with the sugar in there, it doesn't bother me because of the process of it. It's not the same as just consuming the alcohol straight. Or a tincture will actually bother me to some degree because of the alcohol that's in it. But yeah, you just want to watch that. It's safe for kids. It's a really low amount. And it's because you're fermenting sugar and sugar creates alcohol, once it gets past the alcohol, and they have vinegar just like you would if you're making wine or beer.

Melissa: Yeah. Yeah, it's the alcohol phase and then the vinegar phase. So, if you let it go with a longer, actually, which is funny, I think people might not assume that the longer the ferment as it gets closer to vinegar stage, of course it'll be more sour, but it would have less-

CeAnne: Less alcohol.

Melissa: Less alcohol. Yeah. So, yeah, weighing those. Well, yeah, this has been fun. We've got lots of different recipe alternatives to have. And I know you guys have, which we'll make sure and link, some really fun different flavoring kits for all the supplies for making kombucha, especially the second ferment where you can get really fun with doing some different flavor combinations, etc. So, for those, we'll be linking from the blog post to all of those, but for those who want to follow along, where is the best place online for people to connect with you?

CeAnne: Oh, they're welcome to come to Farmhouseteas.com. That'd be the best place to find all sorts of supplies. If you're wanting education on kombucha, our blog is Growcreatesip.com. And then I have a little ebook for everybody that's free that goes over these things and has a bunch of drink recipes in it for making fun drinks with kombucha and all sorts of fizzy teas, and cocktails, and things.

Melissa: Fun. I think my internet froze, so it came back. But you cut out, but I'm like, oh, it was perfect where it cut out and came back on my end. I think in the recording it's fine because it records from both ends. So, I'm like, oh, no. Well, at least it made it through that long. Goodness. And of course, if you're coming to the Modern Homesteading Conference in June, CeAnne will actually be doing a class all about kombucha as well as having their booth there. So, you'll be able to come and get supplies, learn in person, and get to hugger, which is what I'm looking forward to.

CeAnne: Hopefully you can find me. I should be there. This is actually our booth wall right here. We're prepping right here, and set up and packing.

Melissa: Yay. I know. I'm so excited to get to see everybody. I'm on [inaudible 00:43:47].

CeAnne: The countdown is on.

Melissa: Yeah, it definitely is. Well, friend, thank you so much for coming on today. I am pretty sure we'll probably do another episode again in the future because... yeah. But thank you so much for coming on.

CeAnne: Thank you for having me.

Melissa: Well, I hope that you enjoyed today's episode. It was so much fun to be back with you after taking our short break. And I have got some very exciting episodes coming up for you in next week, where we are going to be diving back into our topics of Homesteading 101 series. But we're going to be kicking that back off where we are going to be talking about soil health, specifically with our pastures, and raising animals and livestock on pastures, and diving into an episode that I have very much been looking forward to. So, make sure that you are back here next week when that releases. For now, blessings and Mason jars, my friends.